Blessings to you too
Neal

Steve Chalke, a prominent UK evangelical leader, recently affirmed covenant same sex relationships. He recaps his theological exploration in an article called “A Matter of Integrity”. His hermeneutic is compelling and very similar to what I discovered through study and prayer.

A copy of the article is available on his organization’s website – Oasis UK. If you look it up, I suggest the full version with footnotes.

My best to you
Ford.

Thank you for the kind words and I pray the change will come ASAP too.

“As I am sure you know, this argument effects the families of gays as well. My wife and I have left our denomination because of their views. My son has a friend whose family has disowned him because of their beliefs. A co-worker, who belongs to a particularly
fundamentalist church, lost his teenage daughter to suicide. As Ford1968 said, this has to stop.”

My heart breaks for these sheep because they’re tortured and/or starved to death, not fed. You can guess I don’t condone people satisfying their same-sex attraction at all. Still, it’s a detestable abomination when a gay kid who wants to talk to his pastor or church friends about his attraction are: 1) Told he’s hell-bound for the mere possession of the unwanted, unchosen attraction he can’t turn on & off 2)Ostracized by the church people 3) Pressured to turn straight otherwise his faith is questionable or he’s not good enough 4)Got name-called and made fun of. God will hold accountable parents who abandon & disown their gay & lesbian children. I disagree w/ you on what should be done with a person’s SSA, but I pray that church people and the family will instead rally around a gay/lesbian person, affirm his/her worth as a child of God, support, pray, and carry together this heavy cross to discipline and make the homosexual desires obedient to God. Personally, I have so much faith that God will prove His grace sufficient to such people. If you read the Christianity Today link posted by 22044, I like how that lady said the pastor who mailed her “engaged her” rather than throwing the same old hurtful rhetorics. Can’t guarantee all lesbians and gays who go down the conservative path will have the same result as her, but at least we agree the pastor who reached out to her showed Christ’s love.

“It seems you agree; however, we seem to get stuck on scripture and what “we think” it says or does not say,i.e translation and interpretation.”

It’s good to healthily & civilly continue the debate. You’re right, once we debate, we’re stuck there and we don’t treat those on the opposing side as Christ would. Thx for the link, I skimmed the pdf file & will read further later. Upon skimming, the arguments are familiar & they’ve been addressed by the traditionalist side too. I’ll recommend you check out the Gay Christian Network website, they have a “great debate” section where you can more/less compare side-by-side the 2 opposing views. In Scripture, God is clear on the contexts, dos, and donts of heterosexual conducts & marriage. My thinking is that if gay relationship equally acceptable & sacred, He would’ve been just as unquestionably affirming in Scripture. After all, God is omniscient, He’s always known there are same-sex attracted people in ancient past, now, & in the future falling for each other & desiring to be together. When the clobber passages always frown upon gay intercourse with no EXPLICIT context of permissibility, I’d rather err on the side of caution, if I’m wrong.

I don’t doubt the sincerity, love, & commitment of monogamous gay couples. That’s not where my objection stems from. Since I uphold the traditionalist arguments, I can’t say God approves of such relationships no matter how loving & committed they are. The greatest commandment is to love Him with all of our mind, heart, and soul & even loving others is still secondary. If I’m right, the offense of a gay relationship is against God himself b/c He makes the ground rules human sexuality, & how we’re to illustrate the profound mystery of the covenant b/w Christ and His church (Ephesians 5:32).

Blessings to you

“I wrestled with the question: Did I really want to understand homosexuality from God’s point of view, or did I just want to argue with him? I prayed that night that God would give me the willingness to obey before I understood. I prayed long into the unfolding of day. When I looked in the mirror, I looked the same. But when I looked into my heart through the lens of the Bible, I wondered, Am I a lesbian, or has this all been a case of mistaken identity? If Jesus could split the world asunder, divide marrow from soul, could he make my true identity prevail? Who am I? Who will God have me to be?”

At the end of the day, I really do not know the answer to the “sin” question with respect to homosexuality. I only see the response of the church and the rotten fruit that it leaves in it’s wake. To me, this is God speaking and says all I need to know on the subject. If I am wrong, it will be for the right reasons.

It was the Son of God too who kept her from being stoned. She did not ask for His mercy, He gave it to her before she even asked for anything and told her to repent.